Lewis Hamilton scored the 91st victory of his Formula 1 career at the Nurburgring, equalling the all-time record for most wins in F1, set by Michael Schumacher.
The Mercedes driver also moved a big step closer to matching Schumacher’s record of seven world championship victories. Team mate Valtteri Bottas, his closest rival, failed to score after retiring before half-distance with a suspected MGU-H failure.A lively race run in unusually cool conditions saw several incidents. Bottas, who held the lead from pole position, lost his advantage when he ran wide at turn one, prompting Hamilton to pass him around the outside of the next corner.
Max Verstappen came in second having fallen five seconds behind Hamilton despite the field being compressed by a Safety Car period which ended with just over 10 laps to go. His team mate Alexander Albon retired earlier on following a collision with Daniil Kvyat.
The final spot on the podium went to Daniel Ricciardo, who ended Renault’s nine-year wait for a top three finish. As with the other two podium finishers, his team mate did not reach the chequered flag, a hydraulic failure accounting for Esteban Ocon earlier on.
Sergio Perez rose through the field to finish fourth ahead of Carlos Sainz Jnr. Lando Norris was on course for a strong finish in his McLaren before suffering a problem with his newly-fitted Renault power unit, which eventually forced him out, causing the late Safety Car period.
Seven different cars occupied the top seven places: Pierre Gasly brought his AlphaTauri home sixth, while Charles Leclerc slipped back from his fourth place on the grid to take seventh for Ferrari. Team mate Sebastian Vettel spun on his way to a point-less 11th.
Following his 11th-hour recall to Racing Point, Nico Hulkenberg rose from last on the grid to claim points for eighth place. Romain Grosjean nursed a sore hand from the beginning of the race, which he believed was caused when it was struck by gravel from Kimi Raikkonen going off, but claimed his first points of the season with ninth.
Antonio Giovinazzi claimed the final point for Alfa Romeo in 10th, with Vettel and his team mate Kimi Raikkonen close behind. Raikkonen served a 10-second time penalty for a collision with George Russell which ended the Williams driver’s race.
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2020 Eifel Grand Prix reaction
- Check back shortly for more race reaction
Lums (@lums)
11th October 2020, 15:03
LEWIS HAMILTON – GOAT!
Congratulations! A century of wins next!
Dave
11th October 2020, 15:08
He’s definitely taking that one!
trib4udi (@trib4udi)
11th October 2020, 15:13
Sublime Lewis.
Again flawless on raceday.
Fantomius (@liko41)
11th October 2020, 19:43
Errmm, nope.
He has to do something more than barely beating Bottas to be considered at the same level of Schumacher.
Being outqualified is not that “something”.
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 21:05
I think it’s clear that Hamilton has done more than barely beat Bottas over the course of his career, to say otherwise is disingenuous.
Whether or not he is ‘the GOAT’ is up for discussion but let’s not pretend that getting to 91 victories is an easy feat given that only one other driver is within 40 victories of that tally.
Esploratore (@esploratore)
11th October 2020, 22:48
It doesn’t mean anything, give fangio, clark and ascari 300 races and they’d have 150 wins!
Racingdave
12th October 2020, 12:43
That’s a weird comment – if they were all fighting over 300 races who would have most wins? They couldn’t all!
I think it raises something intersting – who else on the Gris in last 10 years could do what Hamilton has done?
I put Vettel in the same group as Stewart – 3 titles 4 for Seb – and neither really said to be the goat by anyone.
Alonso had a chance when he came up against Hamilton in his rookie year – if he had handled that better he could have been WC at mclaren or at least been able to go to Mercedes. So there for he is not on Hamilton’s level.
There are no other drivers from this time – so he has had the best equipment and not had another driver on his level for 10 years?
Fangios time wow read off the great talents – Ascari, moss etc.etc.
Same for Clarke’s time, Senna, Prost, Schumacher…..
So 91 victories is an Epic achievement and makes Hamilton GOAT of the recent era – as you say all time well open for discussion!
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
11th October 2020, 21:14
He has to beat Rubens to be the GOAT!
Postreader
11th October 2020, 21:33
Well, he did beat Rosberg, who beat Schumacher.
Lee
11th October 2020, 22:07
Does he have to purposefully endanger another drivers life by taking them out in order to win the championship? Or does he have to park his car on the apex of a corner during quali to stop other cars from beating him? Does he have to have a team mate that is not allowed to beat him? If he does those will he get your vote?
Jesper
12th October 2020, 3:05
Lee – I totally agree with you.
DeanR
12th October 2020, 8:22
He has 91 wins (soon to be 92), will have 7 WDCs by seasons end and holds the all time PP record by some margin. These are facts that will stand the test of time. Your opinions? Not so much.
Tommy C (@tommy-c)
11th October 2020, 15:05
Not that there was much doubt, but that’s pretty much the championship wrapped up for Lewis. Despite that, the racing has been good. Good to see 7 different cars in the top 7.
macradar (@macradar)
11th October 2020, 15:05
You cannot win 91 races and not be great!
No team orders.
No special dispensations.
I will always admire Lewis , a real sportsman!
f12007v (@f1fan-2000)
11th October 2020, 15:34
actually 90 he still owes bottas a win
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 15:40
Actually 91 because the FIA still owe him a win.
Rott
11th October 2020, 15:41
Such a stupid statement.
Rockgod (@rockgod)
11th October 2020, 16:29
Actually 1 win and a WDC because McLaren owes him an earlier pitstop in China 2007. See how it cuts both ways?
Fantomius (@liko41)
11th October 2020, 19:44
@aezy_doc
Actually nope. He gave it back in Japan and Austin that same year.
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 21:06
If you look up you’ll see the point flying way over your head.
Drop Sochi
11th October 2020, 15:39
He did win the Monaco GP in 2016 after team orders were issued to Nico to let him past. That said, MS had many more team orders!
f12007v (@f1fan-2000)
11th October 2020, 15:48
not taking anything from him but MS gave back RB a win irrc
Samouri (@samouri)
11th October 2020, 15:57
Orders for Nico to move over for Lewis at Monaco in 2016. Reason being that, Rosberg was to damn slow.
Drop Sochi
11th October 2020, 16:04
not slow enough for Lewis to pass without team orders apparently!
Sham (@sham)
11th October 2020, 16:45
But slow enough to cost the team a win with others around them.
David BR (@david-br)
11th October 2020, 15:05
Congratulations Lewis Hamilton, superb achievement.
LB (@burden93)
11th October 2020, 15:06
Congratulations Lewis Hamilton! Great moment with Mick after the race, Lewis and Michael are special special drivers, privileged as a fan to have watched both of them drive in real life. To win 91 races in whatever machine, is an incredible effort. Both forever legends in our sport.
Dave
11th October 2020, 15:07
Now I wonder who will use number 91 on their F1 debut…
José Lopes da Silva
11th October 2020, 15:51
The son of the driver who started F1 in 1991.
Learon
11th October 2020, 20:54
Does it mean that Ham will retire with 107 wins?
Esploratore (@esploratore)
11th October 2020, 22:51
I know it’s not the point of the question, but 107 wins is not out of the question, the car is incredibly strong and will be next year too, and then it’s unlikely mercedes make a terrible car for 2022, next year already it might be possible to hit it, if he signs a new 3 year contract most likely will go past.
DeanR
11th October 2020, 15:08
Congratulations Lewis. None of us thought MS 91 wins was going to be matched for a very very long time. Let’s save the big celebrations for seasons and when Lewsi Carl Hamiton will become “officially” the most successful driver of all time and how thoroughly deserved it will be. Lets hear it from David Bondo and partners!!! 😂
Esploratore (@esploratore)
11th October 2020, 22:53
Car matters, hamilton got 20 wins before 2014, schumacher got 50 + if you exclude dominant cars. Hamilton could likely get past 30 if you put in some wins of 2017 and 2018 without dominant car, but nothing like he’s done.
Brian Trust
12th October 2020, 0:22
Contractually obligated number two teammates aside of course….
DeanR
12th October 2020, 8:24
22 wins before 2014. Oops!🤣
DeanR
12th October 2020, 8:26
Think Schumacher had 91 wins before 2014 too. 🤣
Jere (@jerejj)
11th October 2020, 15:08
That’s more or less it for the drivers’ championship. Albon’s errors before the PU-related(?) DNF. He should do better in the car he has under his disposal. The race itself was decent overall, though, albeit the full SC was unneeded. VSC would’ve been perfectly fine.
Kribana (@krichelle)
11th October 2020, 15:10
100 race wins is under threat by him at earliest next season.
David Bondo
11th October 2020, 15:13
Get in there Danny Ric! Wonderful performance.
Maximilian great too. Up against a car that has locked out the front row in 9/11 races. Given the Merc is at least half a second quicker he was doing well to get to lap 45 or whatever it was when the safety car came out only 12 seconds down. Never gives up.
I think Vettel needs to retire. Something has happened to his reactions and co-ordination.
pSynrg (@psynrg)
11th October 2020, 15:18
Yeah, brilliant Max & Dan! Between them only 75 wins to go to match the GOAT Lewis Hamilton with brilliant win #91!
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 15:21
What evidence do you have that the Merc is 0.5s faster? 0.25s behind in Quali. Fastest lap belonged to Max today. I’m not saying Merc isn’t faster but I don’t think we can say by as much as half a second.
The DAS definitely gave Hamilton an advantage at the restart but it looked a bit like Verstappen could have reacted a bit faster to Hamilton. My hope is that the Red Bull and the Merc converge performance even more so we can have some closer on track battles between (probably) the two stand out drivers in F1 at the minute.
Kribana (@krichelle)
11th October 2020, 15:29
I think Mercedes were faster by at least 0.3 seconds. That fastest lap by Verstappen is unrepresentative of the pace difference in between the two cars in the race distance. It appeared that he could keep up with Hamilton for one lap, but then he needed to go slower, and then repeat. Mercedes were faster overall in the race.
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 15:34
I agree. I just don’t think they are as much a as half a second per lap. It’s very difficult to know exactly how much management Merc employ when out in front, how much of it is aero meaning RB can’t close up and how much of it is driver. I think we can say that Bottas in the Merc vs Max in the RB would be close to equal. On average could we say Hamilton is 0.2 to 0.3 faster than Bottas? Probably.
f12007v (@f1fan-2000)
11th October 2020, 15:50
looking at the race max could pretty much keep up with the merc when bottas was in the lead, but when lewis is in the lead, its a different story.
David Bondo
11th October 2020, 18:19
I was being conservative saying they are 0.5 seconds quicker than RBR. Likely it’s much more.
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 21:07
Red Bull are clearly fifty seconds per lap slower than Mercedes. Happy?
anon
11th October 2020, 23:17
aezy_doc, you forgot to make David Bondo’s/Oconomo’s fantastical claims that the Red Bull car is apparently only fifth fastest car – although, by now, they’ll no doubt downgrade it to sixth fastest – even as Verstappen was close to lapping the entire field in his own right and had to make do with a car that was only about 1.4s a lap faster than the midfield pack.
bosyber (@bosyber)
11th October 2020, 15:23
Well said, though I’ll wait to see what Vettel can do next year, no doubt a great weekend from both Ricciardo and Verstappen (just now watching the Ziggo GO guys analyse start – often a bit overly Maxy, but they are right, very adult, capable and solid first lap, and no mistakes and that last lap 0.006s faster to get the FLAP, super after a great qualifying yesterday).
Rott
11th October 2020, 15:38
Rubbish. Redbull clearly fastest car here, fastest lap is a clear indicator given that all TOP three cars were in similar situation. But Max just doesn’t have enough in him to challenge Lewis.
10 wins vs 91. Lol.
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
john (@spactus)
11th October 2020, 16:30
Max was a serious contender for pole untill Bottas took it and suddenly he driving a slower car.theres is no balance analysis on Max and REDBULL from the media because they want to elevate apparently beating Albon makes him the best briver in the world.Max wins he great ,2nd hes great ,3rd his great,if he gets beat by a racing point, car is twitchy.
The cars were close enough in performance to say that the driver made the difference.Lewis is just better at bededing his tires and soking up the pressure.he never just bolts and builds a 5 second lead,he gets outof DRS and builds slowly a tenth at a time,while Max is going balls out and eating his tires,by 10 laps lewis just manages the lead…Max last lap fastest lap on same strategy showed the cars were close enough in performance
HAL
11th October 2020, 20:29
Oh, look… Time for your meds… :D
AMG44 (@amg44)
11th October 2020, 15:16
Amazing achievement by an amazing driver. The best on the grid. LH44
knightameer (@knightameer)
11th October 2020, 15:19
Although not a fan of his, but Lewis is certainly on his way to become the greatest of all time statistically. Simply wow at his accomplishments. I was and will always be a Ferrari fan, but Lewis deserves all the praise for his consistent performance.
Imre (@f1mre)
11th October 2020, 15:53
It was crystal clear from the moment they announced the delay of 2021 rules. He’s going to be 8 times WDC with about 110 wins and about as many poles by the end of next year. The longest team dominance ever, I guess. 8 WCCs in a row… neither of those 8 ever in serious doubt.
Rockgod (@rockgod)
11th October 2020, 16:37
Not for a lack of the Ferrari’s equipment in 2017/18/19. If only there was a No 1 driver in that team who could withstand pressure when his car isn’t half a second faster than the rest of the track.
F1oSaurus (@)
11th October 2020, 16:58
@f1mre Did you even watch 2017 and 2018? Ferrari clearly had the faster car overall for those seasons. Hamilton only managed to take back the championship after Vettel started blundering even more heavily than usual, just after midway through each of those seasons.
2019 Ferrari was on par with Mercedes too. Just their drivers were below par. Plus the team supported the wrong driver as #1.
Bahrain, Baku, Canada, Austria, Russia, Japan, Mexico should all have been won by Ferrari. Spa, Monza and Singapore they did win. That’s 10 wins they should have had. A true racer would have gone beyond that and also won some races where they weren’t so likely to win upfront. Like Hamilton does often enough.
In Mexico, Mercedes were the third fastest team and Hamilton still won. Granted, due to incompetence from Verstappen, Leclerc and Vettel, but still.
So sure the scoreboard shows dominance, but that’s Hamilton’s greatness or his opponents incompetence. Not dominance of the car.
David Bondo
11th October 2020, 18:42
Ferrari were not quicker in 2017 and 2018.
The only reason Vettel found himself ahead in the championship was because of Mercedes strategy blunders, driver errors, and timely mechanical problems.
Off the top of my head Australia 2017 was handed to Vettel on a platter when he used the overcut, Hamilton kicked an own goal in Bahrain by trying to hold up Ricciardo and getting penalised for it, Russia Bottas won the race with Hamilton 4th (just poor driving from Hamilton he had the best car), Hamilton qualified 14th at Monaco, Bottas won Austria from pole while Hamilton finished 4th.
As you see, Hamilton just underperfomed in the first half of 2017.
Mercedes had 12 wins while Ferrari had 5.
Similar story in 2018 with Mercedes only winning 2 of the first 7 races.
Mercedes quickest in Australia with Vettel jumping into the lead with a fortunate VSC allowing him to pit, Bahrain had Bottas all over the back of Vettel at the end with Vettel doing well to hold him off despite being much slower, China Hamilton got outqualified by Bottas with Bottas leading the race when safety car came out Mercedes didn’t pit the RBRs did gifting them the win.
Mercedes were always quickest but Hamilton underperformed and team made blunders.
Dave
11th October 2020, 19:01
Clown
slowmo (@slowmo)
11th October 2020, 19:40
Indeed Dave, Best not to feed the trolls though.
mystic one (@mysticus)
11th October 2020, 22:06
@dave someone would show him the way to the circus? I think he has a career in the stewards’ room :)
Marginal Gain
12th October 2020, 7:31
Ha ha cherry picking revisionist history! It was obvious to anyone who knows F1 that for most of 17 & 18 the Ferrari was a championship contending car, unfortunately neither the team nor The designated no.1 driver were up there with it.
But no matter, all these convoluted caveats you try to create to try and nullify Hamilton’s achievements won’t be remembered by the history books….. he’ll just be. Remembered as the greatest F1 driver of all time, And which will annoy you every time you see it written for the next twenty years at least, quite possibly longer. Maybe Max will beat it sooner, although he’ll probably need a dominant car to do it, and that apparently means his achievements won’t count,,,,,,,
Sham (@sham)
11th October 2020, 15:23
Disappointed in Red Bull. Apparently retiring a healthy car, albeit driven by an average (for F1) driver.
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 15:37
At the moment Albon is driving like a less than average F1 driver. Something in his head? Very slow compared to Max, two lock ups and at fault for contact. How long can this go on?
Erik
11th October 2020, 18:29
“They race me so hard” complained Albon. What does he expect, for everybody to move over and let him pass? Not the mindset of a true racer.
hal
11th October 2020, 20:33
I really feel for Albon, who is a good driver put in the wrong context. But still, I agree… This “They race me so hard” was so embarrassing. This is F1, kiddo, wake up. By the way, great race from Gasly again.
Drop Sochi
11th October 2020, 15:42
I was a bit worried they might have fired poor Albon mid race!
AJ (@asleepatthewheel)
11th October 2020, 16:01
Alexander ‘they race me so hard’ Albon
Qeki (@qeki)
11th October 2020, 18:52
I was wondering why Hamilton didn’t complain about the totally unnecessary safety car
Imre (@f1mre)
11th October 2020, 20:28
Would you have chosen to drive for Mercedes or Ferrari in those years? @f1osaurus Which package would have given you the best chance? And it’s not only about setting fast laps, it’s also about tactics, reliability, pitstops, in-season development, etc.
Okay, in 2018 Mercedes only won the title by about 80 points, that was closeish…
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 21:15
The thing is though, if you have a driver that is performing, the pressure on tactics and pitstops lessens and mistakes are less frequent. You can sacrifice some performance for reliability and you take fewer development risks. A high performing consistent driver is worth their weight in gold.
F1oSaurus (@)
12th October 2020, 11:05
@f1mre Ferrari had the better car for 2017, 2018 and 2019.
2018 it was really by a huge margin. Auto Motor und sport went through all of Vettel’s blunders. They concluded that Vettel could/should have won the 2018 WDC with 54 points ahead. Just by keeping station instead of risking it all and failing.
It’s not just that he throws away 25 points in Germany. He also gifts Hamilton the win instead of finishing 4th or 3rd.
Besides, 2014, 2019 and 2020 have obviously exposed Vettel as an average driver. Hamilton is of a much higher level, so Ferrari were being held back by Vettel and they were still on route to take the WDC in 2017 and 2018. Until Vettel upped his level of blundering every time the pressure went up.
Imre (@f1mre)
12th October 2020, 20:13
So if it had been you, you would’ve chosen to drive for Ferrari in 2017, 2018 and 2019. The team that lost the WCC by 144, 84 and 235 points.
Broke84 (@broke84)
11th October 2020, 15:24
Quite a historic race, Hamilton matches the 91 mark and thankfully on a decent circuit. (I’m loving seeing tracks in mountains and gravel, this will sound weird but it brings a nostalgic serenity and familiarity that I miss).
I also appreciated Hamiltons humility in the interview after, Hamilton is probably aware that people’s opinions differ of him but I feel he was so very careful with his words. The only thing that bugs me with f1 are these exclusive DC, Brundle, JB interview. There is no reason that local celebraties can’t do the interviews, why DC and not Mick Schumacher?
All in all though, a decent race and the midfield battle is fascinating. I think Renault aee on for p3 and p7 for ferrari.
Drop Sochi
11th October 2020, 15:43
I much preferred the old press conference straight after the podium.
ian dearing
11th October 2020, 16:05
No press allowed. So they do those on site first (TV). Its a bit of a wait but I prefer the new format. Not so many ‘gotcha’ questions and it appears on social media quite quickly. This should be a good one with Ric there. Normally its a two man show with Max and Ham, with the third guy just getting the odd question and giving some bland sort of answer.
Rott
11th October 2020, 15:32
What a measured drive by Lewis, kept the tires alive and passed Bottas on track. Lol.
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Driver of the day, GOAT!!!
Ricciardo….what a drive. Earned his podium 100%. Not a fluke win like Gasly.
2nd driver of the day.
Biggest loser of the day – Max Verstappen. Fastest car, with fastest lap on the last lap and still Lewis pulled out 5 seconds gap in less than 10 laps. No wonder Honda is leaving this useless one spoilt child policy Redbull. Albon is beginning to look very desperate and foolish, taking out team mates. What a LOSER!
José Lopes da Silva
11th October 2020, 15:57
Western civilization is going down because we are giving room to alternative realities like they were true.
Jay Menon (@jaymenon10)
11th October 2020, 16:17
Par for the course really.
DeanR
11th October 2020, 17:33
To be fair, for every Rott there are 3 David Bondo types.
Erik
11th October 2020, 18:32
Thank God for that.
José Lopes da Silva
11th October 2020, 22:51
That’s the point. Rott, Bondos and many, many more.
Wear a mask and stop complaining, it’s simple science by now.
Esploratore (@esploratore)
11th October 2020, 23:01
It’s also science that in f1 the car matters I believe, that’s why we have mathematical models for team-mate comparisons, and those are able to discern hamilton isn’t the best just cause he has more wins than other, I don’t even see how you’d be able to argue hamilton is better than fangio who won 24 races and only had 51! How was he supposed to win more races than he participated in?
HAL
11th October 2020, 20:35
Don’t feed trolls
LB (@burden93)
11th October 2020, 16:16
Let’s not be ridiculous. Mercedes clearly had the fastest car, Hamilton did his job perfectly though. Verstappen got the maximum out of his car today, and fastest lap for him is a very good effort.
I’m a Hamilton fan, but to try and down play Max is crazy. Him and Hamilton are the class of the field at the moment, as an F1 fan I want to see the cars as close as possible and see the best driver win
Rott
11th October 2020, 16:30
Wow lots of silly fans here, you can’t operate a machine more than what it’s capable of. If you do it, it will explode.
Redbull got the fastest lap on used tires on the last lap. Means it’s the fastest car.
Max is just an average driver.
F1 frog (@f1frog)
11th October 2020, 16:58
Fastest Lap doesn’t guarantee the fastest car. Remember that fastest lap is not always at the front of every drivers’ mind at the end of a Grand Prix. Qualifying is far more of an indicator of the fastest car (although obviously not entirely otherwise they would all line up next to their teammates in Noah’s Ark formation), and Mercedes locked out the front row. It is ridiculous to suggest that the fastest lap is the measure of the fastest car as proven by Kevin Magnussen’s Haas at the Singapore GP last year.
F1 frog (@f1frog)
11th October 2020, 17:00
Also, Ricciardo set the Fastest Lap at the Belgian GP on equally old tyres to Mercedes and Red Bull, and Renault was clearly not the fastest there. Please stop using Fastest Lap as an excuse – it means very little.
LB (@burden93)
11th October 2020, 17:00
*sigh*
Bottas gets pole by a quarter of a second on equal fuel and same tyres, but no we have to look at the end of the race where the fuel, tyres and engines have different conditions to conclude that a car that went just 0.006 seconds quicker must have been the fastest car all weekend. Get a grip!
There is nothing wrong with saying Hamilton has the fastest car, doesn’t mean he isn’t the best driver!
Davethechicken
11th October 2020, 17:40
Red bull were on a par with Mercedes. They had the fastest lap with same age of soft tyres and same fuel at end as the mercedes and were faster.
There is less between the cars than it appears in my opinion. Bottas is a much better driver than he gets credit for. He has one of the fastest ever as a teammate which makes him look worse than he is.
Sadly Albon is not all that fast, and Verstappen was similar to Sainz and Riccardo when in the same equipment
MacLeod (@macleod)
11th October 2020, 19:57
Maybe you notice the 2 laps before his last he was dropping behind that was because he was charging up his batteries to release them in the last lap and then even it’s only 7 thousand of a second faster then Lewis who did that time with more fuel several laps earlier.
Davethechicken
11th October 2020, 21:03
I did. Car 44 did it 2laps earlier on newer tyres.
What is your point?
Clearly the Red bull car 33 was able to match or even exceed the Merc in outright pace. The question is why they can’t beat them.
They have significantly faster pitstops. We know that for fact. They lose in the track.
Why can their drivers not deliver what the car can achieve?
The evidence suggests the car is not being used to its maximum.
iCarbs (@icarby)
11th October 2020, 15:43
Rbr have disappointed, they could’ve had a better driver lineup to try to take the fight to Mercedes. As an operation they are unstoppable (Merc).
I would’ve expected both Red bull drivers to take each other out if they locked out the front grid and went into turn one as Ham and Bottas did.
Well done new goat on matching old goat.
Gusmaia
11th October 2020, 15:46
Should we consider who Schumacher and Hamilton raced against?
I mean, would Schumacher loss a championship to Rosberg?
Call what you want, but where is Hamilton’s competition.
MattG
11th October 2020, 15:53
Alonso
Button
Rosberg
All WDCs
All beaten by Hamilton
Can you let me have an approximate number of WDCs held by Schumacher’s team mates?
Btw: Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg. Ok, it was MS 2.0, but still.
Esploratore (@esploratore)
11th October 2020, 23:02
You said it yourself, he was old, you can’t compare an over peak driver with an on peak, not by that many years at least.
On the Marbles
12th October 2020, 12:09
…convineintly ….
Rott
11th October 2020, 15:56
Alonso rookie season. Enough said or are you just bitter?
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Besides, Rubens was forced to work for Schumacher. Never steal others’ efforts, Karma is the strongest force in the world.
José Lopes da Silva
11th October 2020, 15:58
Alonso rookie season?
David Bondo
11th October 2020, 18:45
“Besides, Rubens was forced to work for Schumacher.”
No he wasn’t. I think you’re forgetting all the times Bottas has had his races sacrificed to be Hamilton’s rear gunner and disrupt the Ferraris. Toto called him the best wingman going around. Hamilton still owes Bottas for the Russian win he stole from him (Schumacher gave back Austria 2002 at Indy that year).
Rott
11th October 2020, 19:54
One time they instructed Bottas to let Lewis past in a Russian GP when he was out of contention and was sleeping as usual.
All the other times, he was behind but was never gonna pass Lewis. Schumacher, Vettel, vestrappen, Alonso all get no 1 treatment right from the start of the season.
Back to Karma, Schumacher in bad state, Vettel exposed, vestrappen 0 wdc and soon will have to peddle car, Alonso game over since 2007.
Respect the force!!!!
iCarbs (@icarby)
11th October 2020, 15:56
Irrelevant, you can only beat what they put in front of you.
Then you have take into consideration how teams operate do they favour one driver or work to maximise team points which means you need both cars coming home in 1-2? Time periods are different, drivers are different, philosophy different.
Either way you still need to get in the car(s) and navigate it to chequered flag.
Neil (@neilosjames)
11th October 2020, 16:03
We don’t know the answer to that – in his title-winning years he never had a team-mate as good as Rosberg.
Hamilton’s had stronger team-mates than Schumacher did. But I don’t put one above the other… impossible to truly compare.
Blazzz (@blazzz)
11th October 2020, 16:08
This comment alone suggests you haven’t been watching F1 very long and haven’t got to grips with facts and history- especially considering Rosberg demolished Schumi 3 times.
That’s before we start talking about Schumi’s team mates always being the bridesmaids, special tyres that only Ferrari had access to and his questionable antics on track.
David BR (@david-br)
11th October 2020, 16:11
Would Ferrari have let Schumacher lose to his team mate? We actually know the answer: no. Contractually, no. Barrichello was told to pull over, remember, when Schumacher was under no threat in the championship. Rubens never had any chance. Zero. There was only ever going to be one winner at Ferrari. So it’s kind of a redundant question. Rosberg, though, did beat Schumacher on his return. That we do know. And pretty comfortably. I’m not sure why Schumacher is given such allowance to be a lesser driver on his return, given everyone from Fangio to Alonso managed to maintain their qualities despite having the same age or more. But even so, admitting Schumacher may have faded, it suggests Rosberg was a very fast driver and Schumacher not so stratospherically good that he could avoid losing to Rosberg. Facts, heh?
David (@davidjwest)
11th October 2020, 18:11
I mean, would Schumacher loss a championship to Rosberg?
2010-2012
As team-mates Rosberg soundly beat Schumacher. Every other team-mate was either a poor driver or a number two, or both.
David Bondo
11th October 2020, 18:48
Schumacher was in his 40’s and had been out of all forms of racing for three years (apart from nearly breaking his neck riding a motorbike).
Still, he went 10-10 in qualifying against Rosberg in 2012 at 42. In 2014 Rosberg beat prime Hamilton 11-8 in qualifying.
This stuff about Schumacher having a contract to not let a teammate win is rubbish.
Schumacher was told in 1999 to twice go out and sacrifice his race for Irvine which he did.
Colly
11th October 2020, 18:55
The points are earned for the race not qualifying. Also looking a small windows of time are misleading and you know that.
Your argument is the equivalent of, “today it didn’t rain in Ireland therefore I conclude it is always dry there and never rains”
David BR (@david-br)
11th October 2020, 19:06
“That one area was that in every contract, whether I signed with (Eddie) Irvine or (Rubens) Barrichello or whoever they were – there was a clause there that they always had to play second-fiddle to Michael Schumacher,”
Eddie Jordan.
David Bondo
11th October 2020, 20:56
So why did Schumacher sacrifice his two races in 1999 for Irvine? Why did Barrichello complain about moving over in Austria 2002 if he specifically signed a contract stating he’d have to move over for Schumacher?
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 21:25
You know the answers to these questions. Schumacher was out of the running in 1999, he broke his leg at Silverstone had had no chance of winning the WDC.
Listen to the post race press conference about Austria – Barrichello doesn’t complain, (although he’s clearly disappointed) recognising that he had just signed a contract and the team had asked him to move over.
anon
11th October 2020, 22:59
David Bondo, I can only assume you are deliberately trying to distort the record in this case – given that Schumacher had missed seven races due to breaking his let in the British GP and it was therefore impossible for him to win the WDC, he was instructed to let Irvine past because Irvine was still in mathematical contention. The team normally wouldn’t have done that, but the unusual circumstances of that season meant that they had to maximise the chances of their one remaining driver.
As for the 2002 Austrian GP, Ross Brawn confirmed in 2017, in the pre-race driver briefing, it was explicitly agreed that, to quote Ross, “if Rubens got the jump on Michael, then at some convenient point he would let him past” – the team went into that race with the clear expectation that Rubens would move over and let Michael past without question.
The fact that Rubens did then resist in that way was the unexpected complication for the team – they didn’t expect him to do that, as they instead expected him to obey their original pre-race instruction that he was to pull aside and let Michael through.
Steve (@scbriml)
11th October 2020, 23:14
Talk about revisionist! Schumacher missed half the season with a broken leg. Irvine was their only chance of winning the championship.
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 16:04
Different eras so really tough to compare. Rosberg has been much underrated and despite Schumacher being in the twilight of his career, Rosberg out-performed him significantly. In Rosberg’s championship year, Hamilton had more poles and more wins and lead more laps than Rosberg did. He also had one more retirement that cost him dear.
Let’s also not forget that Schumacher was undoubtedly enjoyed number one status during his time at Ferrari; a status Hamilton has never enjoyed (at least not in writing).
Hamilton has had Alonso, Button and Rosberg as team mates; all have proven that they can be world champions. Schumacher had Barrichello, Irvine and Barrichello.
The point is, arguments can be made in favour of either, but reaching 91 wins does not happen by accident so really it’s massive kudos to them both.
f12007v (@f1fan-2000)
11th October 2020, 16:30
we shall see how has MS deteriorated from age next year with Alonso coming back
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 17:25
Maybe, maybe not. Alonso has been racing in other premier events during the interim. Schumacher afaik didn’t. Happy to be told otherwise though.
Esploratore (@esploratore)
11th October 2020, 23:08
Mmm, good point, he’s gonna become 40 during next year, on paper when you are beyond 35 you start losing performance and then you lose it far quicker past 40, I think he’s gonna perform better than schumacher’s come back in relative terms, as in he’s gonna be closer to his own first career performance than schumacher was to his own, but maybe things could deteriorate quickly the next years.
Rapid
11th October 2020, 16:19
I would just like to point out that, whoever claims that Hamilton > Schumacher or Schumacher > Hamilton or worse still, claims that the Red Bull is 0.5 seconds slower than the Mercedes or that the Red Bull is the fastest car on the grid and Verstappen is slow (yes, people on here make such claims!), you have absolutely zeroproof. Nobody knows. Nobody can proof or disproof any of these claims without windtunnel data and head-to-head comparisons with drivers at the same team under the same circumstances during their primes and with the same amount of luck.
Claiming an opinion or cherry-picking statistics just shows bias and a lack of objective reasoning. Heck, it shows a lack of humility that you might be wrong.
Actually, claim what yall want. I can’t actually prove you wrong.
Rapid
11th October 2020, 16:21
Claiming an opinion as fact***
I have zero problems with people stating their opinions.
F1oSaurus (@)
11th October 2020, 17:05
We have proof of Schumacher’s preferential treatment in the team.
His team mates were not allowed to challenge him. How many wins did he get gifted because of that?
As Herbert explained, after being faster than Schumacher in practice, he was no longer even allowed to see his own telemetry! How many wins did he get gifted because of that?
How about FIArari? They were paying Ferrari a 100million bonus every year. Which allowed them to test almost continuously on their home track. How many wins did that give Schumacher?
Then there is all the cheating. Messing with fuel filters, traction control, Moving aero parts. How many races did he win illegally because of those?
David Bondo
11th October 2020, 18:56
His team mates were not allowed to challenge him. How many wins did he get gifted because of that?
This is what makes Schumacher the greatest. How does a man in his mid-20s with no real F1 connections go into the most expensive and political sport on the planet and basically call all the shots at Benetton within two years of being there.
Same with going to Ferrari, the most toxic, political team of all where no-one succeeds, and has them eating out of the palm of his hand, delivers them 5 consecutive championships with a three more near misses.
This is why Schumacher is the best of all time.
He was obviously operating on a different level to everyone else, the smartest guy in the room.
Hamilton made a bold move going to Mercedes but all the chatter back in 2012 was about Mercedes most likely having the best engine in the new hybrid era. Basically landed on his feet through no fault of his own. In his first year at Mercedes Rosberg got 2 wins to Hamilton’s 1.
David BR (@david-br)
11th October 2020, 19:12
So what happened to all that blabber about ‘cream rising to the top’ with Bottas winning pole yesterday?
Given Bottas was your ‘cream rising to the top’, shouldn’t he have performed a bit better against the ‘non-cream’ Hamilton today?
David Bondo
11th October 2020, 20:23
It’s a bit hard to be quicker over 60 laps against a car that has a half a second edge over you.
aezy_doc
11th October 2020, 21:28
The Mercedes is faster than the Mercedes? That makes no sense.
Blazzz (@blazzz)
11th October 2020, 22:40
@David Bondo
Gots to love your selectiveness.
Tell me, who did Rosberg inherit the Silverstone win from?
I see in your other comments you belittle HAM for 2016 despite Hamilton winning more races. Inconsistent much? You remind me of other known trolls on these boards with your familiar toxic rhetoric.
Esploratore (@esploratore)
11th October 2020, 23:11
As someone who can’t stand the ones who say hamilton is better just cause he has higher stats (which are obviously 70% car related) I still have no doubt he performed better than rosberg in 2016, reliability is all there was to it in that championship.
David Bondo
12th October 2020, 5:31
In races where both drivers finished in 2013, Rosberg beat Hamilton 8-7.
If you take away the team orders implemented by Brawn to give Hamilton the podium in Malaysia then it would have been 9-6 in favour of Rosberg.
Rosberg had most of the mechanical bad luck in 2013.
Blazzz (@blazzz)
12th October 2020, 8:51
@David Bondo
And by that logic we also need to reverse the Silverstone win for Rosberg which he inherited after Hamilton’s tyre blew out in an afternoon when Pirelli had issues across the grid. So that makes it 8-7 to Lewis anyway. Now, I see you dodged the 2016 question. Using our very own logic, what was the score in a 2 car finish in 2016? And who won more races?
F1oSaurus (@)
12th October 2020, 11:21
David Bondo, Yes and Rosberg dropped out in races where he was already miles behind Hamilton from the start. So no, that’s not how this works
That way of looking at the statistics only works to even out when the better driver is hampered by more dnf’s. If he was ahead of the lesser driver before the DNF then it doesn’t make sense to hold that against the better driver.
Like when looking at 2016. Rosberg getting pole when Hamilton didn’t participate in Q3 just means that Hamilton had worse luck and not that Rosberg was faster.
Like the nonsense that Hamilton had a poor start of 2016 messing up the first 4 races. When in fact he had to start from P22 in China and P10 in Russia (both to technical issues). Plus he got punted off by Bottas in Bahrain.
F1oSaurus (@)
12th October 2020, 11:10
David Bondo
That’s just a strategy that teams sometimes employ. Made sense for them to race a one driver team.
Benetton had a clever aero idea and they milked it to the max. Briatore was a clever guy and he arranged a lot of benefits for Schumacher.
Still, the fact remains, that not allowing his team mates to challenge him helped Schumacher to more wins he would have had with an actually racing team mate. let alone with team mates of the caliber that Hamilton has been racing against.
Alonso, Button, Rosberg and Bottas. In a fair fight would you think Schumacher would have actually beaten any of those 4?
LB (@burden93)
11th October 2020, 18:02
+10000000
Pironi the Provocateur (@pironitheprovocateur)
11th October 2020, 16:19
A real shame for Bottas. He wasn’t so cautious about his tyres in the first stint, but still, I believe he had a legitimate chance to overcome Hamilton today. Despite Hamilton’s faultless drive, you would probably struggle to count all his lucky stars – no mechanical failure for him since Austria 2018, and this is one of the decisive factors in this year’s so called title battle.
Though luck for McLaren again. Racing Point has lost many points too, but I think we can call it even. Unbelievably unfortunate for the whole team.
David BR (@david-br)
11th October 2020, 16:36
@pironitheprovocateur Maybe bad luck, maybe not. Bottas clattered his way back over the kerbs to keep ahead at the race start. Pure speculation but that may have set off his problems. To say that reliability is ‘decisive’ this season is a wild stretch whatever the case. Bottas had already lost this race. He’d have been 50 points or so behind at best without the DNF. If he has another 2 or 3 race-ending failures, then maybe that excuse can be wheeled out. It would still be an excuse though. He’s lost the season on track.
mystic one (@mysticus)
11th October 2020, 17:17
@david-br “Bottas clattered his way back over the kerbs to keep ahead at the race start. Pure speculation but that may have set off his problems”
one austria race come to mind? both drivers went over the curbs aggressively, and both had to retire due to some hydro-mechanical related issues….
also on a very good day, bottas doesnt really go far ahead of ham unless ham is really having an off day (which is usually 1-2 times a year) when ham is on form, he goes miles ahead…
bottas on the lead>>> had barely managed between 1-2 secs before ham was closing in on him massively already… which led him to make a mistake of massive lock up and destroying tyres…
ham on the lead after letting loose from bottas train >> 11 sec gap to max 1st time around, 5 secs gap second time around…
I think this answers botta’s chances of getting back at hamilton? not sure if he could cover off max easily to begin with…
David BR (@david-br)
11th October 2020, 17:26
@mysticus Precisely, it was Hamilton suddenly catching up with Bottas that forced the mistake. He used to win against Rosberg, when starting behind, in the same way. Vettel too. Putting them under pressure and over the limit. It was a massive lockup too. The kerbs, I don’t know. I’m not sure how heavy it was, but certainly the car seems vulnerable to have kerb use like you pointed out.
us-brian (@us-brian)
11th October 2020, 17:09
When will this guy ever have his run of bad luck.
DeanR
11th October 2020, 17:39
Bitterness is not very becoming. I’ll tell you when Lewis had bad luck… 2007, 2016.. just off the top of my head. Lewis knows how harmful DNFs can be and how drives accordingly. Apparently that’s just Lewis not being “fast enough” though.
pSynrg (@psynrg)
11th October 2020, 18:25
We’d be looking at Lewis’s 9th WDC if it wasn’t for his bad luck…
Esploratore (@esploratore)
11th October 2020, 23:14
Yes, 2007 and 2016 was unlucky for hamilton, but apart from the fact several of these titles are hollow, if you correct for titles hamilton was close to winning, same goes for schumacher and everyone else, for schumacher there’d be the 1997, 1998, 2006, with the other 2 less close than the first, and there’s also the 2008 argument for massa ofc.
David Bondo
12th October 2020, 5:33
2016 wasn’t bad luck he botched 7 starts, he crashed in Baku qualifying.
Yet all he can complain about is his engine blowing up in Malaysia — a race that Rosberg couldn’t even capitalise by getting maximum points.
F1oSaurus (@)
12th October 2020, 11:23
David Bondo, Hamilton didn’t botch 7 starts. Mercedes had 7 instances of their start system failing. For both drivers combined. 4 of those for Hamilton and 3 for Rosberg.
Rosberg had the same start system technical issues, like in Australia and Germany.
David (@davidjwest)
11th October 2020, 19:31
In his early career.
David (@davidjwest)
11th October 2020, 19:32
And Italy and Russia this year arguably.
Qeki (@qeki)
11th October 2020, 19:00
I still have a dream, a dream deeply rooted in the American dream – one day this nation will rise up and live up to its creed, “We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal.” I have a dream …
I still have a dream, a slight silvery rooted in the no. 2 seat – one season this will happen and rise beyond and past the still rising legend, “From to whom it may concern to Get in there.” I have a dream
Qeki (@qeki)
11th October 2020, 19:02
I was only going to write that latter one but I forgot to delete the origins of that.. but you can see where it was taken if somebody doesn’t know..
SPIDERmaN (@spiderman)
11th October 2020, 20:35
why is Hamilton not yet knighted…or is it the case of the wrong guy doing all those 91 wins…
i suppose
DeanR
12th October 2020, 11:33
+1
Terry
11th October 2020, 21:45
Interesting comments, but what does Jackie Stewart have to say about this? 😂
José Lopes da Silva
11th October 2020, 22:55
“So why did Schumacher sacrifice his two races in 1999 for Irvine?”
People doing these questions must stop commenting and go read History books.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
11th October 2020, 23:06
There are not enough words to praise Lewis for managing to equal Schumacher’s record of 91 wins! A remarkable achievement and very nice to see Schumacher’s son passing the equivalent of the F1 baton to Lewis. Will we one day see Lewis handing his helmet over to another driver?
Esploratore (@esploratore)
11th October 2020, 23:16
I suppose verstappen is good enough and hamilton has good chances to still be around (not racing ofc) by the time verstappen gets there, so that’s a possibility, however verstappen is a good example how an excellent driver without a car matching his ability will go nowhere (relatively, can win races but not titles).
F1oSaurus (@)
12th October 2020, 11:30
@esploratore Part of winning world titles is helping your team become better. Improving both the team and the car. Verstappen just expects to show up and race.
Reality is that Ricciardo took half the wins at Red Bull (how great is Verstappen then really?) and ever since Ricciardo left Red Bull car development has been horrible. While Renault is making great strides forwards.
David Bondo
12th October 2020, 5:36
This era of Mercedes total domination has been so bad for the sport that it will never be allowed to happen again.
No-one in the history of the sport will be gifted completely dominant car for 7 (soon to be 8) years in a row ever again.
Tommy C (@tommy-c)
12th October 2020, 7:03
But a driver could feasibly copy Fangio’s tactic of jumping ship to the most competitive car from season to season!